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Post by Maddog on Jul 18, 2019 22:56:17 GMT -5
Something that also leads me to suspect a serial killer may have been involved: the killer apparently was lured to Kite through a newspaper ad. That has happened with some serial offenders before, especially some accused of torture (I.e. Leonard Lake, Charles Ng, John Robinson).
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Post by mbado2003 on Jul 20, 2019 21:01:01 GMT -5
Just a heads up, the official Unsolved Mysteries twitter page liked a tweet about Al Kite, recently. Could that be some foreshadowing? We can only hope. I do have one question, though: the new Unsolved Mysteries coming to Netflix is only doing one case per episode, which I would guess would be around one hour. Could they make Al Kite's case an hour long? There isn't that much there. It's mysterious, sure, but there's not a whole lot to work with. I guess they could spend time talking about the different theories that have been floated around, like Israel Keyes, but I think they would have trouble filling an hour long episode.
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Post by Scumhunter on Jul 20, 2019 21:12:12 GMT -5
I think the case itself can definitely fit into an hour- with the horrific details, angles to work with- is this a serial killer? was the killer inspired by the Usual Suspects movie etc....?
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Post by Maddog on Jul 20, 2019 23:24:04 GMT -5
Again, not to beat a dead horse, but I think Israel Keyes just doesn’t seem like the prime suspect. Israel Keyes was 6’2” at the time, and the witnesses in the Al Kite case say that the killer was about 5’10”. They also said Kite’s killer was in his 40s or 50s. Plus, I strongly suspect that the police would have taken his DNA as he was a serial killer and they may have wanted a sample to test against unsolved crimes.
My guess is that Kite’s killer is a serial offender, just not Israel Keyes. Either way, I think we can all agree that this is a case that we would love to see solved because it was terrifyingly evil and the fact that there was no other apparent motive other than a thrill killing.
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Post by mbado2003 on Jul 21, 2019 2:26:46 GMT -5
Believe me, I've taken everything you said into consideration, and like I said before, I've walked back on my stance that it was Keyes. But at the same time, I think I'm able to counter every point you raise. You said the height is too big of a discrepancy, and while that's a good point, it's possible Keyes was altering his height. Some people are significantly shorter when they hunch, let alone walk with a limp and a cane. You also say the age of the suspect is a discrepancy. I'm not sure I agree. Keyes was known to be a man of many disguises. Witnesses were giving different ages for "Robert Cooper". Some had him in his 30s, while others had him in his 40s or 50s. There wasn't a definitive age, meaning this killer spent some time changing his appearance. There's a lesser known ATM photo of the suspect (not the one everyone has seen), and the resemblance to Keyes is STRIKING. I tried to post it on here, but the file was too big. Your point about Keyes' DNA is probably the only convincing thing that would make me think he wasn't the killer. I would have to agree that they probably tested Keyes' DNA to see if there was a match. But at the same time, do we know if they actually did that? Maybe they never took Keyes seriously as a suspect. When I was emailing the detective last year, I got the impression that they didn't take Keyes seriously as a suspect.
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Post by Scumhunter on Nov 7, 2019 3:53:25 GMT -5
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Post by Scumhunter on Nov 10, 2019 3:16:33 GMT -5
My apologies it was a recent but not the most recent episode of The DNA of Murder with Paul Holes. I finally watched the episode via On Demand.
The most significant update is there was a tiny blood droplet on a step which has lead to genealogy results identifying relatives of "Robert Cooper" in the Balkan (Southern European) region.
The show confirmed some of our theories such as this being a thrill kill but apparently that slight Romanian accent some of us suspected was fake nay possibly be real based on the DNA results (even Paul Holes thought it was a ploy at first).
Paul Holes interviewed a few experts on the show and one thing he was very interested in was the unique methods in which Kitenwas tortured and bound, which to him he had never seen before in the level of precision and basically it looked like Cooper was an expert.
This lead to a solid theory from one expert that Cooper may be associated with Turkish Hezbollah. This isn't the traditonal Hezbollah terrorist organization that are anti-Israel that we think of. Hezbollah simply means "Party of God", and my short-term memory is failing me but Wikipedia describes them as a Kurdish Sunni Islamist militant organization, active against the Kurdistan Workers' Party and the Government of Turkey.
According to the expert, the torture methods used are eerily similar to the way Turkish Hezbollah would torture Kurdish rebels.
However, the main thing is after 15 years, we've finally had a major break in the case as far the genealogy database matching to relatives of Al Kite's suspected killer.
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Post by Scumhunter on Nov 12, 2019 6:06:43 GMT -5
I should mention one concern I have is they finally identify Al Kite's killer but it turns out he went back to a country where he can't be extradited from. I hope not, but it is unfortunately a possibility based on the genealogy results.
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Post by Maddog on Nov 15, 2019 12:56:45 GMT -5
I should mention one concern I have is they finally identify Al Kite's killer but it turns out he went back to a country where he can't be extradited from. I hope not, but it is unfortunately a possibility based on the genealogy results. The good news is the US has an extradition treaty with nearly every European country, and also, we do have one with Turkey.
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Post by Scumhunter on Nov 15, 2019 19:35:53 GMT -5
True but sometimes things get complicated even with that if the person is a native of the country.
But this is such a brutal murder I'm sure we'll find some way to get Kite's killer back if we ID him.
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Post by Maddog on Nov 16, 2019 2:33:30 GMT -5
True but sometimes things get complicated even with that if the person is a native of the country. But this is such a brutal murder I'm sure we'll find some way to get Kite's killer back if we ID him. If they ID the killer, and he is in a foreign country, I am sure that the death penalty may come off the table, as many countries won’t extradite if someone is facing the hot needle.
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Post by mbado2003 on Nov 20, 2019 18:28:16 GMT -5
Just watched the episode. It was nice to learn new details about the case, especially because there wasn't much info out there other than what was released in the beginning. It sounds like they are a lot closer to solving the case than any of us would've ever thought. I'm very hopeful now. I do have one concern, though; is it possible this whole Turkish Hezbollah thing is a ploy? This guy planned everything out so well that you'd think he wouldn't do something that could easily be traced back to a group he was involved with. That seems very clumsy on his part. Last thing I'll say: how did he know 7/11 deleted their surveillance tapes after 30 days? Did he previously work at a 7/11? That part is very interesting to me.
P.s
I guess we can officially put the Israel Keyes theory to rest lol.
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Post by Scumhunter on Nov 20, 2019 18:53:45 GMT -5
While the 7/11 angle is a good point, but the Turkish Hezbollah angle was a theory developed on the show. The killer was methodical and smart but I doubt even he had the foresight to go "let me torture this guy in a way Turkish Hezbollah did and make them think it's them" (and would still have to be from around or near the region to have some knowledge of it since there was Google back then but the advanced resources are even more massive now), especially since the theory wasn't developed until 15 years later. The only problem with the Turkish Hezbollah theory is it could possibly be a theory and the expert on the show can be wrong about where the killer's torture methods came from, perhaps it was some sort of similar group, but I really doubt this was a ploy and it's giving the killer- who is admittedly smart- a little too much credit and making him out to be a super genius when he was at least not smart enough to leave some DNA. (and also show himself on surveillance). But yeah I wanted to be polite about Israel Keyes but it looks like we can officially say it's not him lol. In fairness, while I'm usually skeptical whenever Keyes' name is brought up in a cold case, I felt this was one of the better cases to wonder about so it wasn't that much of a reach on your part.
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Post by Maddog on Nov 24, 2019 20:42:17 GMT -5
I’m wondering if this killer was a “wetboy” for some government agency in Turkey or Eastern Europe, or was a professional killer over there as part of the Hezbollah group that Scumhunter mentioned. It sounds like the killer only made one tiny mistake here: leaving that drop of blood. To me, the fact that he disposed the cell phone in an area frequented by the homeless indicates to me he did surveillance on the area as well as his victims. That to me would indicate government training of some sort.
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Post by mbado2003 on Nov 26, 2019 2:37:52 GMT -5
Yeah it was interesting to learn that the DNA they obtained was a drop of blood. I always thought it was something like a finger print or a piece of hair, hence the reason I thought Keyes may have planted phony DNA. It's easy to go to a trash yard and get someone's DNA, but it would be very difficult to do that with blood. I thought it was weird they just now used the genealogy method. You'd think they would've tried that a while ago. Any idea why they waited? Financial reasons? Anyway, I'm really excited about the possibility of this case being solved in the not-so-distant future.
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