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Post by mbado2003 on Jun 25, 2019 17:33:41 GMT -5
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Post by Scumhunter on Jun 25, 2019 18:58:05 GMT -5
Thank you for the update! I will admit I'm usually skeptical when Keyes' name is brought up in a case as he's been brought up so many times in other cases where it turns out to not be him and/or he's ruled out, but I think you are justified in thinking the new suspect/DNA sketch does resemble Keyes.
I have actually thought about this case recently, and the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that whether it be Keyes or anyone else, the motive was a thrill kill. It's horrifying but I feel the person just wanted to know what it felt like to torture and kill someone.
Really unfair to Al Kite whatever the motive was however he was caught, but hopefully the recent developments will help.
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Post by mbado2003 on Jun 25, 2019 20:02:46 GMT -5
I completely agree. It was a thrill kill and nothing more. People online are really reaching with other theories, in my opinion. I saw one theory that said Al Kite was killed because of previous work he was involved with. He used to work at a national laboratory, so some theorize he may have known secrets, and that's what led to his demise. Not to get conspiratorial, but anytime there's a mysterious death involving the government, whether it be Danny Casolaro or Michael Hastings, there's not much of an investigation done. It's almost like the investigation gets shut down from the start. That wasn't the case with Al Kite. There was an exhaustive investigation done and it was profiled on a number of TV shows. Anyway, this case deserves way more attention. It would be nice if Dateline would do a piece on it, or if the Unsolved Mysteries reboot on Netflix would spend some time on it.
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Post by Scumhunter on Jun 26, 2019 1:20:01 GMT -5
I agree the UM revival would be perfect! Especially considering the shows are supposed to be hour-long episodes that focus on only one case which would allow them time to explore (we'll see how that works out).
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Post by mbado2003 on Jun 28, 2019 11:15:21 GMT -5
Okay guys, sorry to bother you with Keyes again, but I have to do this. Here’s my final case for Keyes being the killer. Israel Keyes always traveled around the country to kill people. This Robert Cooper character had to have been from out of town. I doubt he’s from Aurora because he would run the risk of being recognized around town by one of the people who saw him. So there’s that. There’s also the point about The University Of Colorado Library. That was central to the case. Keyes was 26 (still relatively young) when the murder took place, so his youth might’ve been what attracted him to the university. He would've blended in because he looks young. If he were really in his 40s or 50s like the witnesses said, he could possibly stand out and be remembered in an area with a lot of young people around, so I doubt he was actually 40-50 years old. Another point has to do with Al Kite's debit card. Keyes was known to rob people he murdered, because he needed the money. That could very well be why he wanted Al's PIN number so bad, he just needed the money. (Also the atm picture looks very much like Keyes). Another point has to do with the ‘torture kit’ that he brought and used. Israel Keyes would always bring his own murder weapons and then stash them somewhere in the wilderness. Well to my knowledge, the torture kit was not recovered at the crime scene, meaning he had to have taken it with him. As everyone knows, Colorado has a lot of mountain area, so it's very possible he stashed the torture kit near the mountains. Another point has to do with the DNA composite they made for "Robert Cooper." It looks so much like Israel Keyes! My last point has to do with Keyes’ various disguises. That fits the MO of this Robert Cooper guy because he looked different to everyone he encountered. But I will say, one thing that makes me think it wasn’t Keyes is Robert Cooper’s approximated height. Witnesses described him as being 5’10", which is pretty average and doesn’t really stand out. Israel Keyes was 6’2”, which is pretty tall. His height probably would've made him stand out. But maybe Keyes was purposely altering his height. Some people are 2-3 inches shorter when they hunch. So maybe he was doing that, or something else to make him appear shorter (like walking with a cane??) I think those are pretty good reasons to seriously consider Keyes as "Robert Cooper." I’d love to know if Keyes was officially ruled out via DNA testing. That may be the case, which would explain why the detectives never seemed too interested in him, or anything I just mentioned. Anyway, that’s all I really have to say about this case. I’ve spent more than enough time researching and thinking about it lol. I really hope it gets solved someday. It’s in my Top 5 cases I would like to see solved. Read more: amwfans.com/thread/722/unknown-kite-killer-colorado-2004?page=3#ixzz5s9z6F9pV
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Post by Scumhunter on Jun 29, 2019 1:06:32 GMT -5
Thanks for your thoughts.
I would agree this ranks near the top of cases I want to see solved as well, mainly because of how innocent a victim Al Kite was and how horrific and unfair it was for him to die the way he did, which in my opinion was for no reason other than a thrill kill.
I hope one day the case is solved, whether they name Keyes or someone else posthumously or arrest a different suspect.
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Post by mbado2003 on Jun 30, 2019 21:03:44 GMT -5
Sorry, one more thing. You know how they used ancestry websites to catch the East Area Rapist? Couldn't they do that with Al Kite's killer? We know they have his DNA. I'm not exactly sure how they go about doing that, but that would seem like an obvious thing to try. On an unrelated note, the East Area Rapist went silent for several decades, disproving the old adage that serial killers never stop. It's possible that this Robert Cooper character only committed one murder and is pleased with it and hasn't done it since.
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Post by Scumhunter on Jul 1, 2019 1:26:36 GMT -5
The Golden State Killer (Joseph DeAngelo) was found via GEDMatch which was an open source DNA site. Unlike ancestry or 23andme.com it was free and open but they recently changed their terms of service to where you can decide whether you can opt in for law enforcement matching.
I think technically law enforcement may be able to get DNA if it is a case deemed of critical safety to the public, but there would still be a bunch of legal loopholes they'd have to go through.
As for the Al Kite case, I guess at the very least GEDMatch could still be useful if DNA cam be traced from someone who opted in.
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Post by Maddog on Jul 6, 2019 22:26:37 GMT -5
Wouldn’t they have Israel Keyes’ DNA preserved, though? They did the same thing with Ted Bundy - when he died, police agencies kept a vial of his blood in the event that they had other crimes they could link him to.
I think the DNA composite just goes to show - sometimes sketches aren’t the most reliable bits of information. What I mean is the DNA sketch looks fairly different from both composites.
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Post by Maddog on Jul 6, 2019 22:55:03 GMT -5
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Post by Scumhunter on Jul 7, 2019 2:06:37 GMT -5
It is a good point about the DNA phenotyping. There are times where I go "wow that looks exactly like him/her!" and other times where the suspect looks nothing like the DNA photo.
It is the most advanced and accurate technology we have so far, but like all technology it isn't perfect.
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Post by Maddog on Jul 7, 2019 15:37:13 GMT -5
There are times where it is pretty accurate - Alexander Ewing’s mugshot from a year after the Bennett Family murders looked very similar to the genotype sketch.
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Post by mbado2003 on Jul 8, 2019 0:11:59 GMT -5
That's disappointing to hear that an arrest would've been made already, had the DNA website been of any use. I was hoping that would be what they used to catch him. If you ask me, I think that was their only hope to ever solving this. It's gonna take an admission at this point. Btw, I started walking back on my Israel Keyes theory. Keyes made a lot of sense to me, but the more I think about his height not matching Robert Cooper's, the more I doubt he was the killer. I just wish I knew if they officially ruled him out via DNA testing. But that brings me to something I forgot to mention earlier; on either the Already Gone podcast, or the Unresolved podcast (I can't remember which one), they said the police obtained the killer's DNA from an ATM receipt in Al Kite's truck. Doesn't that seem a little too easy? They said the killer was wearing gloves when he was at the ATM. How could his DNA appear on the receipt? To me that makes me wonder if it was Israel Keyes, because from what I understand, Keyes was known to leave behind phony DNA. I thought I would throw that little tidbit out there.
On a side note, do you ever wonder if the killer reads all of this stuff and laughs at us? He's probably too smart to look up this case on his own computer, but it makes you wonder. I doubt he does. He probably isn't very emotionally intelligent and doesn't bother looking up his own murder. He's most likely a self absorbed loser who has nothing in this life.
He may think he got off scot-free but I hope he knows we will never stop looking into this. I'm just some random person on a forum and I'm constantly looking into this. Imagine what the actual investigators are doing. I hope "Robert Cooper" knows they can kick down his door any day. But again, I doubt he has the emotional IQ to even worry about that.
Sorry to get overly emotional there, but I get angry every time I read about the details of this case. So senseless.
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Post by Scumhunter on Jul 8, 2019 0:32:00 GMT -5
Perhaps the killer temporarily took off his gloves? Even the most meticulous killer is not prone to mistakes. As for reading this stuff, I think it is a lot more likely if Al Kite is not the suspect's only victim, as many serial killers do seem to pay attention to what is said about them and enjoy reading or viewing media after each time (not to say if Al Kite was his only victim he wouldn't still do that). There's so many people who view crime forums such as ours, Websleuths etc... I don't think the government can get much out of tracking everyone who visits pages on a certain case, it would only appeal to them if someone has an oddly specific comment on a thread or stands out for some reason. If the killer was that paranoid, there would still be ways for him to stay anonymous surfing the web by using VPNs and other privacy tools. And also random persons on crime forums have helped solve cases and/or helped in making the public aware of cases to which tips can be called in on cases that eventually leads to solving them. There is nothing wrong in getting emotional in Al Kite's death. In my opinion, it's one of the most senseless murders ever profiled by AMW.
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Post by mbado2003 on Jul 8, 2019 16:08:10 GMT -5
Thank you for understanding the emotion behind this. I can only imagine how the family feels. I hope Al Kite's sister is still alive because she was interviewed on the TV show Sensing Murder back in 2006. It would be nice if she could one day see the killer behind bars.
Scumhunter, I do want to apologize for something. Recently I read the terms of service for this website and I noticed it asked users not to start rumors or spread false information. When I first joined this thread in 2018, I was making claims that I didn't have direct evidence for. I was mainly relaying things I read on other forums, but was acting like they were 100% accurate. I wasn't trying to start any rumors, I was genuinely trying to be helpful at the time. I will not do that again.
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