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Post by Scumhunter on Jul 23, 2018 14:31:45 GMT -5
I don't know as to if this is on (or off topic about this case) but I last night came across an article about the bowling alley where the massacre had taken place decades ago in New Mexico and I found out (that is if nobody else did) that the bowling alley has been shut down. I don't know as to if it went bankrupt or the bloody history of it was way too much that it shut down completely. They did however (the bowling alley) changed their name from Las Cruces Bowl to the 10 Pin Alley according/as can be seen in the attached article............ kfoxtv.com/news/local/bowling-alley-in-las-cruces-shuts-doors-saturday(The bowling alley was shut down this very recent June of this year 2018). Hello fugitivehunter666, Your post is not technically off-topic, however, please search the forum (either through search feature or google- for example google.com + Yaser Said) to make sure we haven't already discussed the case. I have moved your post into our thread where we already discussing the case and I thank you for the info. It is very interesting that it closed. many businesses close right after a tragedy, so with that (and not to mention old-fashioned bowling alleys seem to be a dying breed in general- if there are any they're more modern and adult themed now with drinks and events etc..) it is nice they had a few more decades of great memories despite the horrific tragedy that they unfortunately will always remember as well. |
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Post by Maddog on Jul 26, 2018 19:22:42 GMT -5
If you look at photos of the interior the place is really run-down. I'm wondering if they were already well-aware of the reputation the alley had.
Here's the question I have: Is the Alley slated for demolition? LCPD probably don't want the alley torn down because it's quite possible they may revisit the scene someday if they revisit the case. One thing a lot of Detectives do that solve cases is start over: usually they encounter something they missed the first time.
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Post by catchumall on Jan 10, 2019 13:30:56 GMT -5
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Post by Maddog on Jan 10, 2019 20:04:42 GMT -5
This is not intended to be a stupid question, but I was curious about this: Assuming the killers are one day identified and are on the run at the time of their identification, would they be prime candidates for the FBI's Ten Most Wanted List?
They would in all likelihood meet the criteria for inclusion on the list as any publicity would help, and they murdered five people (if you add Melissa Repass' mother, as she died from the ballistic trauma she sustained), including two children. If you kill two children ages 6 and 2, I think you're fully capable of killing again.
There was an article in the Las Cruces Sun on February 9th, 2016 where they interviewed one of the lead Detectives, Lt. Casey Mullins. He stated, "A lot of this case is dependent on someone coming forward with information. … We’re really counting on the public.” There is also a podcast on YouTube which stated that one of the detectives also remarked that they believed the case could be solved with a confession.
I think Mullins was dropping a hint out there that there is someone they are aware of who knows A LOT more than they are letting on.
Thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 23:40:16 GMT -5
I don't know as to why I am thinking of this but does or would anyone be on board with the idea that maybe 'El Chapo' has any idea(s) or clue(s) as to who these 2 unknown gunmen are?
Think about it:
Las Cruces, NM is real close to the Mexican/U.S. Border (or if not close then at least near there).
If the gunmen had been there to rob the alley they would've taken the money and fled.
The 'execution' murders say that these 2 are professionals and they didn't want any witnesses.
Was it related to the Sinaloa Cartel or was it perhaps an order to rub out some people?
So far I've been following the news on the El Chapo trial and they've covered how the feds cracked/hacked into the phone systems and got recordings of conversations as well as 'deals' and 'dealings'.
The jury had heard gore after gore after gore after gore with so many murders, but yet they haven't covered as to what the cartel did more of 'deals' or 'rubbing out orders'.
Just something to think about.
Plus I remember watching this case on America's MOst Wanted back when it was still on the air and I don't even remember them mentioning that there was indeed one witness to the 2 unknown gunmen fleeing and that it was a young guy on a roof that was across the street from the bowling alley. I know this cause I now have/own the same Charlie Minn film on dvd now in my true crime dvd library and I learned of that young guy on the roof from the film.
Or......... (and I know that you guys who are reading this right now are going to laugh or chuckle at this notion) I was just wondering.................... How close together are Las Cruces from Roswell? I mean how else could you explain the 2 gunmen never being found, maybe they were abducted. Or here's another fact, maybe the police/feds should go over lists as well as pictures/photos of unknown men who were found murdered in either Juarez or Guadalajara since that's where the most bloodiest turf wars and shoot outs and ambushes happen cause who knows maybe the 2 gunmen (if they do/did work or have ties to the Sinaloa cartel maybe they were murdered themselves).
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Post by Scumhunter on Jan 11, 2019 0:15:42 GMT -5
As far as the two questions.
1. I can see suspects making the overall FBI site if they became wanted fugitives in this case, but usually the FBI doesn't added multiple people at once to its' list. If there was a solitary known suspect (even though it was obviously more than one liller) I can see it.
2. That is a very good question. Since El Chapo was behind so much drug cartel violence I can see a scenario where this sort of in an indirect manner ties to him, although I feel it might have been found out by now if El Chapo was more directly involved.
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Post by Maddog on Apr 3, 2019 19:51:15 GMT -5
I wanted to get other people’s takes as to what they suspect as far as a motive.
Robbery?
Targeted Hit?
Drug-related?
To me (and I hate playing armchair detective), everything points to this case being drug-related. Here’s my reasoning:
1) The LCPD haven’t really made it a secret that Ron Senac was less than cooperative with the investigation. I don’t think he was necessarily the target, but I think his son may have been (There’s a podcast on YouTube indicating his son also wasn’t cooperative, and further, his son later died of a drug overdose).
2) The robbers originally told the victims they wouldn’t hurt them if they cooperated. Then the murders happened. My guess is they were of the belief that they knew where drugs were at the alley (which we know they didn’t) and started shooting when they thought they were hiding something from them.
3) The robbers did take around $5,000, but they left a lot of money behind, according to CNN (when CNN covered this cold case on Anderson Cooper’s show). This leads me to believe money was a secondary motive.
4) Ida Holguin said she was certain she saw the two men in the bowling alley days before preceding the murders. She said the two men were just watching other bowlers and nothing else. The argument could be made that they were casing the joint, but I think they would have done more than just watch other bowlers if they were casing the alley.
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Post by Maddog on Aug 6, 2019 20:46:34 GMT -5
Question: Is anyone aware of any physical evidence in this case besides the latent prints discussed in this thread? I know they were trying to lift DNA off of the prints they had, but I was curious if anyone had heard of or had seen articles regarding the evidence available in this case? Problem is, most of it was probably sadly enough, washed away with the fire hoses.
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Post by Maddog on Sept 26, 2020 16:47:59 GMT -5
BREAKING: Although this article is a few months old, the LCPD are looking at a man who committed suicide in 1997 as possibly being the younger attacker. This is based off of a tipster who is certain she knew that this decedent committed the crime.
The police have also acknowledged they have forensic evidence in this case in this article. They also seemed to indicate they do have other suspects in this case. This new detective seems like a good one. The steps he is taking include:
1) Starting over (an external review) on the case; 2) Appealing to the public for information (this has paid off - he has received 50-60 new leads); 3) Announcing a reward of $30,000.
I want everyone else's take: does it seem like he's eluding to the fact that he has primary suspects in this case? That was my takeaway, especially when he said, ""I can't go too into it because (the tipsters) name people who haven't been charged or they're just suspects at this time. It wouldn't be fair to them," Martinez said. "Some of the people who have been suspected of this crime in the past, their names have popped up again. And even though they've been looked into, I've decided we're going to do it all over again."
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Post by тσρтєиhυитєя on Jul 11, 2022 20:40:46 GMT -5
Whoever did this, I do think they were familiar with the area and had malicious intentions, now the city closest to Las Cruces is El Paso, Texas, as it’s less than an hours drive while compared to Albuquerque which is 3 hours away, I think the suspect(s) either probably lived there or were based there at that time, they were familiar with the area, frequented the bowling alley, but didn’t live in Las Cruces proper, so my guess is it’s someone or a group from El Paso. If it was someone or a group from Albuquerque, or somewhere else in NM I think law enforcement would’ve caught them as I bet there was an all out manhunt statewide after the crime.
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Post by Maddog on Aug 30, 2022 0:41:14 GMT -5
The former site of the massacre will reopen as a bowling alley in Spring 2023. www.krwg.org/local-viewpoints/2021-11-22/new-bowling-alley-could-help-us-reconnect-and-enjoy-more-recreationI did want to ask for the input of others in this case. Something is not adding up. One of the detectives strongly implied they have primary suspects. His exact words were, “Some of the people suspected of committing this crime in the past, their names have popped up again.” The LCPD has also confirmed that they have fingerprints they believe belong to the killers. I’m wondering if someone can shed light on why they would have primary suspects and fingerprints, but they haven’t connected them to anyone yet? Seriously, they could just put the suspects under surveillance and then pick up discarded items with their fingerprints on them, or odds are they may have the ability to do an AFIS search. The LCPD has indicated they do NOT have a DNA profile of the killers (at least not yet), and even without it, I would think fingerprints would be damning evidence: the killers (as far as we know) were never employees of the alley nor had there been reports of prior thefts at the alley. There should be no reason for their fingerprints to be there aside from the fact that they committed the robbery. Just wondering what other people think. |
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Post by Scumhunter on Aug 30, 2022 5:48:24 GMT -5
Yeah it's a bit contradictory but they seem to be hinting they know a bit more than we think.
Also I know it's new but I'd still feel weird bowling there. Most mass murders at places of businesses they usually reopen as something completely different to not relive that old wound.
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Post by Maddog on Aug 30, 2022 22:25:48 GMT -5
Yeah it's a bit contradictory but they seem to be hinting they know a bit more than we think. Also I know it's new but I'd still feel weird bowling there. Most mass murders at places of businesses they usually reopen as something completely different to not relive that old wound. Oh, I agree. I’m sure it would get burdensome to have a ton of interview requests, too. The good thing is that this new owner seems very straight-laced and is actually very reputable in Las Cruces. I just hope that the alley will have a great reputation going forward and will be one where people can get together rather than worry about what may happen while there. |
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Post by Maddog on Apr 5, 2023 12:05:33 GMT -5
New updates to the case:
1) DNA testing underway; 2) New Detective on the case.
Charlie Minn is running the movie A Nightmare in Las Cruces in Albuquerque. I just need to say for the record: what Charlie Minn said was wholly inappropriate. He insinuated that the LCPD wasn't solving the case due to corruption, and said they should be embarrassed they haven't solved it.
Here's a thought, Charlie: they probably haven't solved the case because they do not have enough evidence to go to court. If the shooters walk, they can't be tried again, so they aren't going to take the case on until enough evidence surfaces.
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Post by Maddog on Oct 21, 2023 22:00:48 GMT -5
I have, in my free time this week, been reviewing articles on this case and I even watched the old AMW profile of this case on YouTube. I have done a comprehensive review of this case and want to bounce off what I think happened and the odds of this case getting solved.
Victims: I firmly believe the victims in this case were not involved in criminal activity. There is nothing that indicates any of the adult victims were involved in criminal activity, and I seriously doubt they were involved in any criminal activity. That doesn't mean that other people who were employed at the bowling alley weren't involved in anything nefarious (more on that later), but I am 100% sure that none of the victims were involved in any wrongdoing. I think this was a horrible instance of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The suspects: Per an interview in 2010 with the Las Cruces Sun News, the lead detective indicated the motive was a indeed a hit/professional job. His exact quote was, "The shooters were initially thought to be from Las Cruces, but information later led us to believe they were from out of state and sent here to do a job." There are numerous things the killers did that indicates they are professionals and may have done this before: 1) Their weapons of choice: .22 pistols - I have received a lot of differing explanations as to why, but the two most common ones I have heard from people who are familiar with weapons is either A) A .22 slug can bounce around in the body and cause a lot of damage in the process or B) It's not as noisy as other guns; 2) The way the victims were shot (execution-style); 3) The killers set fire to destroy evidence; and 4) One of the eyewitnesses outside of the alley ("Steve" who was interviewed by Unsolved Mysteries) noticed they had a satchel. Basically, they brought a tool kit for murder with them. I also believe they cased out the scene for some time. Ida Holguin is on record saying she had seen the men in the alley before just sitting and watching the activity in the bowling alley. It is certainly possible they knew what the hours of operation would have been by doing this, and it is certainly possible that they may have been able to find out when money would have been on site. Keep in mind, the robbery and murders happened right before the business opened, and many businesses won't have as much cash on hand at the start of the day. We know the killers then fled on foot south from the bowling alley after crossing Amador Avenue based off of the testimony of a painter across the street from the bowling alley, so I believe they fled to a nearby house. I suspect they walked to the scene.
One of the Detectives who was initially assigned to the case indicated that she believed the killers laid low in the community following the crime. That makes sense, too: roadblocks were set up all around Las Cruces within an hour, and they were also set up outside of town. The Border Patrol assisted with aerial searches, too, but the suspects didn't surface. In a 2020 Las Cruces Sun article, the lead detective indicated that the killers left behind a lot of fingerprints. However, he was quite clear that he didn't have any DNA samples from the crime scene, but he was having evidence tested for touch DNA or other forms of DNA evidence. The same detective indicated that he was hoping to use ancestral DNA if it was available to help bring the case closer to a conclusion. This has made me change my opinion of what happened: I believe they know who ordered the killings, but they do not know the identities of the killers. We also know that the killers also left shoe prints behind. Several were found behind the bowling alley. My gut instinct is the killers were probably from Mexico, but at least one of them had resided in the U.S. for some time (the younger suspect spoke English with no accent). I suspect they committed the murders to either send a message, eliminate any witnesses to the crime, or both.
Motive: We now know this was a hit/contract killing. I will not use the bowling alley owner's name here because he has not been accused of any wrongdoing. However, in the 2020 article, the police made it very clear that they felt he was uncooperative with the investigation. We also know from the documentary, that the owner was actually living in the bowling alley at the time of the crime, and he even had a shower installed in the bowling alley so he could reside there. We also know the owner's son was very heavily involved in drugs, and in 1997, he fatally overdosed.
We know that there was a Cuban gang living near the bowling alley. In the 2020 article, one of the initial detectives assigned to the case indicated that she felt that this Cuban gang had someone within it that had way more information than they were letting on. I want to be absolutely clear: I am not accusing the bowling alley owner or his son of anything criminal-related, but Occam's Razor would suggest that one of the two may have owed a debt, or they were involved in drug trafficking. Remember, despite having the money, Ida Holguin said that she noticed the killers were still rifling through drawers and cabinets looking for something. Additionally, we also know that the killers left some cash behind. Robbery seems like a secondary motive in this case, because the killers would have taken all of the money if they were in desperate need of it. Thus, I don't believe pecuniary gain was the primary motive here.
Suggestions for law enforcement:
1) Broadcast this case on Mexican Television: I am sure someone in Mexico may recognize the killers and come forward, especially with a high reward amount already.
2) Get the FBI to help: This can be done in the form of a psychological profile of the killers, and plus, the FBI has more than enough reason to assist: this could fall under federal jurisdiction because it was a robbery affecting commerce, and there is ample evidence already that the killers were from out-of-state and thus, may have fled the jurisdiction. It would be nice to see this on the FBI's Seeking Information page.
3) Improved sketches: What I mean by this: I think a 3D sketch could be of some help here. Lois Gibson's sketches in this case are of excellent quality, but a 3D sketch similar to what they have used in the Lane Bryant murders may help, too.
4) If technology allows it, try sharing fingerprint copies with Mexican law enforcement to see if they get any matches.
I think the odds are between 25-40% that this gets solved. I would really love to see this happen because this was just an absolutely senseless crime. The current detective said he has enough to make an arrest, but isn't sure if he has anything beyond that. There is some evidence that may still help solve this case.
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