Post by Scumhunter on May 6, 2019 4:19:28 GMT -5
For those who don't know, ICE during the past few years has a new office called the Victims of Immigration Crime Engagement Office, also known as V.O.I.C.E. While the list has support for families who are victims of crimes committed by illegal immigration, others have criticized it as an unnecessary office that only serves to continue fear-mongering.
Because the V.O.I.C.E. office has it's own most wanted list now, I feel this issue will come up more and often so rather than repeating myself, I will instead refer to this thread.
Sorry for being lazy, but I will post the summary of the critiques of the office both for and against from Wikipedia:
"Support
Maria Espinoza, director of the Remembrance Project, an anti-illegal immigration organization, said that such an office was needed "because the perpetrators are illegally in the U.S. If they are here illegally they should be removed from the country".[9] Mark Krikorian, director of the Center for Immigration Studies said "highlighting some victims of criminal aliens doesn't suggest that all immigrants are criminals. Shame on those advocacy groups that are trying to minimize the experience of these families."[7] Hans von Spakovsky of the Heritage Foundation said "that every crime that is committed by someone who is here illegally is a crime that would not occur if they weren't in the country."[10] John Fonte, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute, said that "the office would serve several good purposes that are directly related to immigration policy, politics, and civic morality."[11]
Criticism
Critics said that the office overlapped and duplicated the mission of the existing Office for Victims of Crime (OVC) within the Department of Justice (DOJ), which was established in the 1980s and serves the victims of all types of crime.[9] The executive director of the National Center for Victims of Crime said of the plan: "It's complete and utter duplication and there's no need. I'm not sure what this office would do or what services it would offer different than what is available at DOJ."[9] Criminologist James Alan Fox, the Lipman Professor of Criminology, Law and Public Policy at Northeastern University, criticized the creation of VOICE, saying that it duplicated the mission of OVC.[12]
An editorial in the Baltimore Sun said that Trump's claim of victims being ignored and silenced was false, noting that crimes by immigrants generally received disproportionate attention in the media. It referred to Trump's statement as "race-baiting".[13]
Tessa Stuart of Rolling Stone said, "The memo doesn't mention it, but presumably the [VOICE] office would distribute the weekly list of criminal actions committed by undocumented immigrants that Trump promised in a recent executive order."[14]
New York City mayor Bill de Blasio and writer Peter Beinart have said that Trump's establishment of the office is a form of scapegoating.[15][16] Daniel Benjamin, a former U.S. State Department counter-terrorism official now at Dartmouth College, wrote that the office was not intended to meet a real need, but rather was aimed at promoting the view that immigrants are dangerous.[17]"
Rest of criticism be found here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victims_of_Immigration_Crime_Engagement#Criticism
Overall Wiki page on V.O.I.C.E. office: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victims_of_Immigration_Crime_Engagement#Criticism
I am posting this thread to state that as the admin of this forum, my official position is that while I will try to remain as neutral as I can to the controversy, it is none of the family of victims of immigration crime's fault that they are caught up in the controversy.
Illegal immigrants who commit crimes in this country (and of course legal immigrants and U.S. citizens as well) need to be held responsible for their alleged actions, even if you feel the government is exploiting these situations (once again that's if you feel this way).
Once again, sorry for the repetition of shpiel but once again I have been on the record that there needs to be bipartisan immigration reform that is strict but not heartless. More needs to be done about illegal immigrants who come here, commit crimes, and then go back to their own country without consequences. At the same time, there needs to be protections in place for immigrants who have been hard-working law-abiding citizens for decades and/or dreamers who are here through no fault of their own.
So I just wanted to refer back to this thread whenever we profile a V.O.I.C.E. most wanted fugitive so I don't have to repeat myself and waste time writing multiple paragraphs. My and since I am the admin this mean's it's also the forum's official position is to be respectful to both sides of the debate (I am not always neutral in off-topic but I understand the sensitivity here), I will neither praise nor critique the V.O.I.C.E office/issue and instead state that the fugitives on the list need to be caught regardless of what you think of the office or the list. Not because of politics, but to get justice for the families.
Good guys and bad guys come in all shapes, sizes and colors and all we can hope for are pragmatic ways to put an end to the partisan divide and bitterness that has always been around but in my opinion increased dramatically pretty much since 9/11. I admit I'm not holding my breath, but all we can do is strive to be the best people we can be and hold anyone who is or isn't an illegal immigrant, legal immigrant, U.S. citizen, Native American citizen, sovereign citizen, account holder at Citizens Bank, person who has watched Citizen Kane, past human being who has been reincarnated into a new human being or any other form of human or living being with the conscious ability to know right from wrong to be held accountable when they do commit offenses against our society that we do our best to protect. (I always like to end on a light note).
Because the V.O.I.C.E. office has it's own most wanted list now, I feel this issue will come up more and often so rather than repeating myself, I will instead refer to this thread.
Sorry for being lazy, but I will post the summary of the critiques of the office both for and against from Wikipedia:
"Support
Maria Espinoza, director of the Remembrance Project, an anti-illegal immigration organization, said that such an office was needed "because the perpetrators are illegally in the U.S. If they are here illegally they should be removed from the country".[9] Mark Krikorian, director of the Center for Immigration Studies said "highlighting some victims of criminal aliens doesn't suggest that all immigrants are criminals. Shame on those advocacy groups that are trying to minimize the experience of these families."[7] Hans von Spakovsky of the Heritage Foundation said "that every crime that is committed by someone who is here illegally is a crime that would not occur if they weren't in the country."[10] John Fonte, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute, said that "the office would serve several good purposes that are directly related to immigration policy, politics, and civic morality."[11]
Criticism
Critics said that the office overlapped and duplicated the mission of the existing Office for Victims of Crime (OVC) within the Department of Justice (DOJ), which was established in the 1980s and serves the victims of all types of crime.[9] The executive director of the National Center for Victims of Crime said of the plan: "It's complete and utter duplication and there's no need. I'm not sure what this office would do or what services it would offer different than what is available at DOJ."[9] Criminologist James Alan Fox, the Lipman Professor of Criminology, Law and Public Policy at Northeastern University, criticized the creation of VOICE, saying that it duplicated the mission of OVC.[12]
An editorial in the Baltimore Sun said that Trump's claim of victims being ignored and silenced was false, noting that crimes by immigrants generally received disproportionate attention in the media. It referred to Trump's statement as "race-baiting".[13]
Tessa Stuart of Rolling Stone said, "The memo doesn't mention it, but presumably the [VOICE] office would distribute the weekly list of criminal actions committed by undocumented immigrants that Trump promised in a recent executive order."[14]
New York City mayor Bill de Blasio and writer Peter Beinart have said that Trump's establishment of the office is a form of scapegoating.[15][16] Daniel Benjamin, a former U.S. State Department counter-terrorism official now at Dartmouth College, wrote that the office was not intended to meet a real need, but rather was aimed at promoting the view that immigrants are dangerous.[17]"
Rest of criticism be found here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victims_of_Immigration_Crime_Engagement#Criticism
Overall Wiki page on V.O.I.C.E. office: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victims_of_Immigration_Crime_Engagement#Criticism
I am posting this thread to state that as the admin of this forum, my official position is that while I will try to remain as neutral as I can to the controversy, it is none of the family of victims of immigration crime's fault that they are caught up in the controversy.
Illegal immigrants who commit crimes in this country (and of course legal immigrants and U.S. citizens as well) need to be held responsible for their alleged actions, even if you feel the government is exploiting these situations (once again that's if you feel this way).
Once again, sorry for the repetition of shpiel but once again I have been on the record that there needs to be bipartisan immigration reform that is strict but not heartless. More needs to be done about illegal immigrants who come here, commit crimes, and then go back to their own country without consequences. At the same time, there needs to be protections in place for immigrants who have been hard-working law-abiding citizens for decades and/or dreamers who are here through no fault of their own.
So I just wanted to refer back to this thread whenever we profile a V.O.I.C.E. most wanted fugitive so I don't have to repeat myself and waste time writing multiple paragraphs. My and since I am the admin this mean's it's also the forum's official position is to be respectful to both sides of the debate (I am not always neutral in off-topic but I understand the sensitivity here), I will neither praise nor critique the V.O.I.C.E office/issue and instead state that the fugitives on the list need to be caught regardless of what you think of the office or the list. Not because of politics, but to get justice for the families.
Good guys and bad guys come in all shapes, sizes and colors and all we can hope for are pragmatic ways to put an end to the partisan divide and bitterness that has always been around but in my opinion increased dramatically pretty much since 9/11. I admit I'm not holding my breath, but all we can do is strive to be the best people we can be and hold anyone who is or isn't an illegal immigrant, legal immigrant, U.S. citizen, Native American citizen, sovereign citizen, account holder at Citizens Bank, person who has watched Citizen Kane, past human being who has been reincarnated into a new human being or any other form of human or living being with the conscious ability to know right from wrong to be held accountable when they do commit offenses against our society that we do our best to protect. (I always like to end on a light note).