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Post by 912thamwuser on Nov 9, 2019 19:42:36 GMT -5
All good points, but at the same time, some of the major races in the past few years where a Democrat has upset a Republican in a major race in a red state has been a center-left or center-right Democrat, Beshear was a center-left/right-ish candidate in Kentucky, for example. That sort of furthers the argument that this country is more center-left or center-right than anything. But I do agree with you about mainstream media possibly muddying the waters. I want to support whoever the candidate is that wins the nomination, but I still have my own personal preferences. One more factor is that Doug Jones' (ALBM) and Claire McCaskill's (MSOR) voting records never helped the working class, and people have widely hypothesized that they only won because they they were competing against a child predator and a rape apologist respectively. My preliminary instinct also tells me that, with how little is known about Andy Beshear's platform, that Matt Bevin lost more to his own attacks on teachers than his actual opponent. Simply put, some of these upsets might say a lot more about the Republicans who lost than the Democrats who won. Especially considering all of that, even with those upset victories by Wassermancrats over the hard-right, I'm still not convinced their centrism was why. West Virginia either voted for Sanders over Rodham in the '016 primaries, or said they supported Sanders over Rodham among registered Democrats in a poll, fueling a hypothesis that voters place progressive populists above far-right pseudo-populists above establishment Democrats above the Republicans' worst sexual perverts. I still think it's more populism over establishment than center over left. |
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Post by Scumhunter on Nov 9, 2019 22:12:20 GMT -5
All good points, but at the same time, some of the major races in the past few years where a Democrat has upset a Republican in a major race in a red state has been a center-left or center-right Democrat, Beshear was a center-left/right-ish candidate in Kentucky, for example. That sort of furthers the argument that this country is more center-left or center-right than anything. But I do agree with you about mainstream media possibly muddying the waters. I want to support whoever the candidate is that wins the nomination, but I still have my own personal preferences. One more factor is that Doug Jones' (ALBM) and Claire McCaskill's (MSOR) voting records never helped the working class, and people have widely hypothesized that they only won because they they were competing against a child predator and a rape apologist respectively. My preliminary instinct also tells me that, with how little is known about Andy Beshear's platform, that Matt Bevin lost more to his own attacks on teachers than his actual opponent. Simply put, some of these upsets might say a lot more about the Republicans who lost than the Democrats who won. Especially considering all of that, even with those upset victories by Wassermancrats over the hard-right, I'm still not convinced their centrism was why. West Virginia either voted for Sanders over Rodham in the '016 primaries, or said they supported Sanders over Rodham among registered Democrats in a poll, fueling a hypothesis that voters place progressive populists above far-right pseudo-populists above establishment Democrats above the Republicans' worst sexual perverts. I still think it's more populism over establishment than center over left. All great points! I actually don't disagree! |
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Post by ninja108 on Nov 13, 2019 2:37:39 GMT -5
When the elections come next year and Democrats are looking for states in play,West Virginia won't be one of them.
It went to Trump by 42 points with every county voting for him.
Those included voters who voted in the Democratic Primary for Bernie Sanders but made clear it was more about trolling Hillary and that they would be voting for Trump in the fall no matter who won the primary.
The days of Blue Dog Democrats who would vote for a Robert Byrd or Joe Manchin are over with(he's lucky he won.)
West Virginia now is solid red,a trend that started on the Presidential level back when Al Gore ran and finally made its way down to the rest of the federal and state elections under Obama.
Bottom line,no Democrat,Bernie or otherwise,is going to put WV in play next year or any year.
It's gone red and it's not coming back.
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Post by Scumhunter on Nov 13, 2019 2:45:06 GMT -5
Agree about West Virginia going and staying red at least, although 912th made some good general points I agree with.
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Post by Scumhunter on Nov 13, 2019 2:47:23 GMT -5
But I still think my dilemma in wondering who's the best possible candidate is wondering whether it is someone who might be considered further to the left but has a passionate base that will definitely go out to vote or whether there needs to be a more center-ish candidate to satisfy all types of voters, but they might not have that following to inspire the younger crowd and you need young voters like Obama got in 2008.
I honestly don't know the right answer.
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Post by тσρтєиhυитєя on Nov 13, 2019 11:40:14 GMT -5
I would vote for Bernie Sanders in a heart beat, and hope they don’t screw like they did in 2016, Bernie Sanders has the ability to flip West Virginia and the rust belt blue, not only because the polls show it, but Bernie Sanders’ message is what everyone wants regardless if they are Republican or Democrat, a working class person is going to love Bernie’s ideas because he’s looking out for the average working class person unlike Donny the Deuce, who literally played all these people in the states with the vision that he was going to keep jobs in America, when he hasn’t done much to keep companies like carrier from outsourcing their jobs.
There is going to be a crap ton of backlash from 2016 in 2020 and i predict it could go 1 of 2 ways. Donny the Deuce gets re-elected for a second term as many people “want to give him a second chance to do something” or someone like Bernie Sanders (if he doesn’t get played by the DNC) will win because those that voted for Trump in 2016 for economic reasons will defect to Bernie thus only leaving his die hard bigoted supporters.
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Post by ninja108 on Nov 13, 2019 16:34:05 GMT -5
Agree about West Virginia going and staying red at least, although 912th made some good general points I agree with. I agree with his points too,especially about upsets. Pretty much any upset is due to the most part for one candidate being horrible,and because of political shifts. Look at Scott Brown in MA. He was able to beat Martha Coakley but there was no way he was going to survive even a decent candidate,let alone someone like Elizabeth Warren in a regular election year when you have the wrong letter next to your name. As for WV,it's not flipping regardless of whether Bernie is running or not. People will put their bigotry and hate of the other over their own economic well being so unless Bernie tells the WV voters he'll be screwing over women,immigrants,LGBT citizens among others,he isn't winning the state. It's a shame people are like that but that is the truth. |
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Post by 912thamwuser on Nov 13, 2019 22:21:02 GMT -5
Agree about West Virginia going and staying red at least, although 912th made some good general points I agree with. I agree with his points too,especially about upsets. Pretty much any upset is due to the most part for one candidate being horrible,and because of political shifts. Look at Scott Brown in MA. He was able to beat Martha Coakley but there was no way he was going to survive even a decent candidate,let alone someone like Elizabeth Warren in a regular election year when you have the wrong letter next to your name. As for WV,it's not flipping regardless of whether Bernie is running or not. People will put their bigotry and hate of the other over their own economic well being so unless Bernie tells the WV voters he'll be screwing over women,immigrants,LGBT citizens among others,he isn't winning the state. It's a shame people are like that but that is the truth. Rodham was a horrible candidate, just milder in everything bad about her than Tronald Dump, and she even got 3 million more raw votes than Tronald Dump among some piss-poor voter turnout, yet the electoral professors voted the other way. That was an exception, but the norm is something like a generic, worthless Wassermancrat defeating a molestation suspect or rape apologist. A candidate using bigotry to sway their constituents at their expense is what people have in mind when one condemns another for what's called demagoguery. Unfortunately, I'm completely stumped on what makes so many Americans think that cis-het supremacy, white power, nativism, xenophobia, patriarchal misogyny, ableism, and other extreme biases is worth throwing aside one's own economic health for. |
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Post by Scumhunter on Nov 14, 2019 0:30:52 GMT -5
I just want to be clear I plan on voting for Bernie in the Democratic primary. I'm actually not a Democrat but a registered independent that *usually* votes Democratic. I could be wrong but I think they changed the rules to where you can vote in the primary even if you're a registered independent. I couldn't and many couldn't last time, thanks to the rigged DNC system that got us stuck with Hillary as our candidate. If it turns out I can't vote in the primary after all, I'm still rooting for Bernie though. I'm just naturally neurotic hence the pontificating and worrying about who the best candidate will be lol. The thing is Trump for whatever reason thinks Biden is his strongest opponent hence the attempts at quid pro quo that's going to get him at the very least impeached by the house of representatives so I'm like there must be a reason he's more afraid of Biden than he is of the others. Also, I haven't forgotten about Pete Buttigieg aka Mayor Pete, who is surging in the polls. I like him as well, athough my concern is if America was still sexist enough to not vote for a woman, how on earth will they vote for an openly gay President? (And yes I understand Hillary's baggage didn't help). I've sort of been purposely not mentioning Buttigieg since I don't want to jinx him and keep him a best-kept secret at the moment.  |
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Post by outlawtaco on Dec 7, 2019 21:44:46 GMT -5
Given that Steve Bullock of Montana Tom Steyer of Pennsylvania and Kamala Harris have all dropped out I was wondering who your favorite democratic candidates was
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Post by 912thamwuser on Dec 7, 2019 22:43:57 GMT -5
Given that Steve Bullock of Montana Tom Steyer of Pennsylvania and Kamala Harris have all dropped out I was wondering who your favorite democratic candidates was Mine hasn't changed. Still Sanders Or Screw It. |
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Post by Scumhunter on Dec 8, 2019 1:03:37 GMT -5
Given that Steve Bullock of Montana Tom Steyer of Pennsylvania and Kamala Harris have all dropped out I was wondering who your favorite democratic candidates was Mine hasn't changed. Still Sanders Or Screw It. I'd definitely write-in "Screw It" over Donald Trump. |
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Post by King Of Clubs on Dec 9, 2019 12:14:06 GMT -5
Hey All! It's been a long time since I was here, but I decided to come back! But anyways, I am a very conservative guy most of the time. But even with that, I still am not a fan of Donald Trump. There's many reasons for that, but one big one is his foreign policy. I have a hard time believing other countries will be willing to extradite fugitives if he is in the White House pushing his ludicrous isolationist agenda. As for the election, I used to say that I would cross over and vote for Joe Biden over Trump if he was the nominee. But his endless cringe gaffes have made me decide otherwise. So I'll likely just be leaving the presidential slot on my ballot blank next year.
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Post by 912thamwuser on Dec 9, 2019 12:27:33 GMT -5
Hey All! It's been a long time since I was here, but I decided to come back! But anyways, I am a very conservative guy most of the time. But even with that, I still am not a fan of Donald Trump. There's many reasons for that, but one big one is his foreign policy. I have a hard time believing other countries will be willing to extradite fugitives if he is in the White House pushing his ludicrous isolationist agenda. As for the election, I used to say that I would cross over and vote for Joe Biden over Trump if he was the nominee. But his endless cringe gaffes have made me decide otherwise. So I'll likely just be leaving the presidential slot on my ballot blank next year. Even if Big Banks Biden doesn't drop out, I don't see anyone who actually knows politics voting for him in the primary. His policy record is a disaster, his neurological health is crumbling and taking his campaign with it, and he only has a few temporary supporters who answer polls with landline phones and default to him out of name recognition. But we're still fighting against Tom Perez and Debbie WallStreetMan-Schultz to keep the delegates' suspected bias (and the superdelegacy!) away. |
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Post by King Of Clubs on Dec 9, 2019 13:33:39 GMT -5
Hey All! It's been a long time since I was here, but I decided to come back! But anyways, I am a very conservative guy most of the time. But even with that, I still am not a fan of Donald Trump. There's many reasons for that, but one big one is his foreign policy. I have a hard time believing other countries will be willing to extradite fugitives if he is in the White House pushing his ludicrous isolationist agenda. As for the election, I used to say that I would cross over and vote for Joe Biden over Trump if he was the nominee. But his endless cringe gaffes have made me decide otherwise. So I'll likely just be leaving the presidential slot on my ballot blank next year. Even if Big Banks Biden doesn't drop out, I don't see anyone who actually knows politics voting for him in the primary. His policy record is a disaster, his neurological health is crumbling and taking his campaign with it, and he only has a few temporary supporters who answer polls with landline phones and default to him out of name recognition. But we're still fighting against Tom Perez and Debbie WallStreetMan-Schultz to keep the delegates' suspected bias (and the superdelegacy!) away. I would agree that Biden's lead is mostly only due to name recognition. But he can still get the nomination just by running up his margins in The South. And if the Democrats want to win next year, they need someone who is progressive enough to energize voters, centrist enough to turn out moderates and convert a few independents, able to unify both the establishment and anti-establishment wings of the Democratic party, as well as cut into Trump's margins with the white working class so the Rust Belt states will flip. I know someone who I think could do all of that, and if he ran and got the nomination, I think he would unseat Trump quite easily: Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio. He would almost without question in my opinion take back Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, as well as firmly hold Minnesota. |
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