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Post by тσρтєиhυитєя on Jun 13, 2016 18:52:19 GMT -5
Well personally this is nothing more than outdated Cold War tensions, the USSR dissolved in 1991 and Cuba hasn't been a threat since that time if I am correct, but look on the bright side, Cuba is liberalizing its economy and Raul Castro will leave office in 2018.
Now you guys may disagree but I do think prisoner swaps are acceptable in this situation since the U.S. Government is just starting to begin its relationship with Cuba, but also Cuba needs to hold up its end in order for this to work.
It's remarkable that FBI agents are in Havana because if we had heard this around 2012 or 2013 it would be a shock indeed and also If Cuba wants Ana Montes, which I do not condone her actions but again they happened during the Cold War era, so they should agree to give us only because she's high up on the list fugitives to be extradited from Cuba.
Also this may seem like a spoiler for why Gerena hasn't been removed since they may be thinking of doing a prisoner swap in order to bring him back.
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Post by Scumhunter on Jun 13, 2016 19:33:22 GMT -5
I mean I'm not thrilled about having to give up Ana Montes but as you said I don't see her as much of a threat as in the past and don't think the trade would be as one-sided as some people claim.
(P.S. Not to make a joke here but is this starting to sound like sports? I keep hearing Adam Schefter (the ESPN NFL trade rumor guy) going "Well a potential swap is being proposed. The U.S. sends spy Ana Montes while Cuba sends us back Joanne Chesimard with the possibility of another fugitive to be named at a later-time although that person picked could be protected for the next five years.")
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Post by тσρтєиhυитєя on Jun 13, 2016 19:43:02 GMT -5
I mean I'm not thrilled about having to give up Ana Montes but as you said I don't see her as much of a threat as in the past and don't think the trade would be as one-sided as some people claim. (P.S. Not to make a joke here but is this starting to sound like sports? I keep hearing Adam Schefter (the ESPN NFL trade rumor guy) going "Well a potential swap is being proposed. The U.S. sends spy Ana Montes while Cuba sends us back Joanne Chesimard with the possibility of another fugitive to be named at a later-time although that person picked could be protected for the next five years.") Lol that was a good one  . But yes Chesimard is high up on a list of fugitives in Cuba, I honestly hope Victor Gerena is the next to open up his slot and I do accept the swap only because it'll be a good way to move forward in the right direction and justice needs to be served in those cases. Though you brought up an interesting point, Raul Castro is more of a moderate when it comes to Cuba's liberalization altogether and what I fear is that a Likely a communist party hardliner will take control but again I hope a progressive member of the party or even a chance for other parties to participate in the political process will do Cuba some good and bring us back our long sought fugitive. (my apologies if it got too political but these are likely scenarios) |
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Post by Scumhunter on Jun 13, 2016 19:53:57 GMT -5
It's hard to discuss this case without it being political. It involves U.S.-Cuban tensions along with the fact that many African-Americans feel Chesimard was wrongfully convicted in the first place. As much as I think the justice system has often failed in its' treatment of minorities, giving them longer prison sentences for the same crimes white people commit, for example, I feel if Chesimard was truly innocent she'd ask for a new trial rather than stay in hiding. However, that's another aspect to this case. It's a headache for me since although I have plenty of political opinions, I try my best to stay neutral as the forum administrator. (No one else should feel an obligation to, I just feel like my role calls for neutrality in most cases). But this case is just basically completely political as opposed to the sleuthing aspect that we deal with in most fugitive cases.
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Post by тσρтєиhυитєя on Jun 13, 2016 20:14:33 GMT -5
Well here's my take on Joannes Chesimard, basically she would be considered a hero if she handled everything in a different way, a peaceful way or addressed the problem by getting Involved in the political process or the criminal justice system, but she didn't and for that reason she's not a hero because she used violence and criminal acts to try to prove a point which isn't a way to fight for equality imo, you don't wage war on another race to get rights, you want, we should love all races, stand united and show love not hate and be peaceful, some civil disobedience doesn't hurt but kidnapping murder, extortion and robbery are not the way to do it.
Another way is If there's something someone doesn't like, just get involved in the political, criminal justice or whatever system, infiltrate it and make changes that makes things better for all people and has no biased opinions, instead of taking a life or committing law breaking acts.
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Post by Scumhunter on Jun 13, 2016 20:19:23 GMT -5
Her actions as a black panther obviously can't be condoned. (the actions of the Black Panthers, obviously they had valid societal reasons for being ticked off at government/society, but the application was not the way to go about things). But I don't think that's what many African-Americans (and some others) are arguing but rather they think she didn't shoot and kill the trooper. However, she was convicted in a court of a law. So if she wants to prove otherwise, she could ask for a new trial rather than hide in asylum.
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Post by тσρтєиhυитєя on Jun 13, 2016 20:24:32 GMT -5
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Post by Scumhunter on Jun 13, 2016 20:29:52 GMT -5
What are you agreeing to? Sorry I'm too lazy to watch the videos and the NBA Finals game is on lol.
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Post by тσρтєиhυитєя on Jun 13, 2016 21:58:28 GMT -5
Sorry for the late response got a bit tide up and well I agree that her actions can't be condoned and that many people debate that she didn't shoot and kill the trooper, but the videos show Chesimard saying that she was beat and tortured by the NJ state police while in the hospital and all this other stuff that I find to be far fetched
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Post by profiler24 on Dec 31, 2016 11:27:22 GMT -5
So Chesimard gets a free pass? No she was a member of the black panthers, which was and still is a radical terrorist group. She killed a law enforcement officer in cold blood, so her place should be on death row in the gas chamber or the electric chair. I don't believe in a single word of her jibberish false bullsh*t claiming that she was beaten and tortured. Otherwise make her pass a test with the lie detector and we will see. Fair trial for law enforcement officers and cop killers doesn't exist, either death penalty or jail for life.
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Post by Scumhunter on Dec 31, 2016 18:03:11 GMT -5
I don't believe her either, I guess the point is Cuba refuses to send her back here, so what options do we have at this point? Also, I was saying if she asked for a new trial, why not give it to her? Would finally make her come back here. But of course she won't ask for that.
(Also, lie detectors are considered unreliable and not foolproof and used for investigative purposes only. The results are never allowed in an actual trial case.)
I could understand your point about Joanne Chesimard since she was already convicted, but I still do believe every defendant is entitled to a first trial at least, it is the way the justice system was set up. If some moron who obviously killed an officer thinks they can go to trial and get away with it, they will soon learn they are mistaken, and if it's a state with a death penalty, will likely get it.
Also, New Jersey currently doesn't have the death penalty anymore, although they have talked about reinstating it in "extreme cases."
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Post by profiler24 on Apr 25, 2018 17:17:50 GMT -5
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Post by Scumhunter on Jul 15, 2018 4:31:14 GMT -5
Only because it is new official site policy to mention when we're assuming a fugitive is still at large either as of our posting date or in an update, no matter who it is, as of July 15th, 2018, Chesimard remains on the FBI's website as one of their most wanted terrorists and also listed as one of the New Jersey State Police's Most Wanted fugitives. Yes, I realize if she were ever caught the internet might explode from both those happy and unhappy about her capture, but it's still new official site policy. www.fbi.gov/wanted/wanted_terrorists/joanne-deborah-chesimardwww.njsp.org/wanted/index.shtml |
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Post by Scumhunter on Jun 15, 2019 11:04:12 GMT -5
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Post by profiler24 on Jul 14, 2020 3:56:49 GMT -5
That is a good start, but when will she be extradited that is the question |
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. But yes Chesimard is high up on a list of fugitives in Cuba, I honestly hope Victor Gerena is the next to open up his slot and I do accept the swap only because it'll be a good way to move forward in the right direction and justice needs to be served in those cases. 