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Post by pakman on Feb 13, 2015 23:10:43 GMT -5
Not meaning to change the discussion at hand, but there's something I wanted to ask you guys. Remember on amw.com every case would have an ID number to go along with it? For example, Bablu Hassan had an ID number of 25002 (https://web.archive.org/web/20110913204248/http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=25002)
Well, awhile back, I decided to go through the long process of writing down the ID number of every case on amw.com and seeing if there was anything consistent about them. And oddly enough, there was!
When placed in order, the ID numbers, for the most part, represented the order in which these cases were profiled. There were a few exceptions, obviously (Phillip Ferguson, for some reason, had the earliest ID number even though he wasn't profiled until 2003). But there's quite a few that give clues as to when these cases were first profiled.
Here are some more I noticed:
24763 - Eric Quesada 24796 - Charley Cai 24802 - Esnel Jean 24804 - Daniel Perez 24807 - Asha Degree 24855 - Desiree Lingo-Perkins 24866 - Fabian Smart (Jason McMann Killer) 24881 - Douglas Hannam 24884 - Asgar Ali 24904 - Harold Richardson 24911 - Molly Bish
Compared to AMW's show archives, you'll notice that these cases were all first profiled in 2000. Now this didn't always stay true (beginning in 2006/2007, they just assigned the case a new ID number instead of placing them when they were first profiled) but it's an interesting way to get an idea of when these cases were first aired.
My theory is that AMW had a production assistant go through all the old episodes and create pages based on when cases were first aired. That's why the cases are (mostly) in order.
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Post by pakman on Feb 13, 2015 18:56:57 GMT -5
That's crazy to think that there are some AMW fugitives caught years ago that still haven't stood trial for the crimes they were being sought for. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, especially since Hunter was wanted out of more than one state, but it's still so weird.
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Post by pakman on Feb 13, 2015 12:12:58 GMT -5
Here's a quote I just remembered from Eric Rosenstrom's reenactment. The retired Wise County Sheriff was talking about when he started doubting Rosenstrom, and gave this great quote: "Credibility is like virginity; once it's gone, it's gone!" Still makes me crack a smile when I hear that I've always wanted to use this quote in real life, but I've never had the opportunity to.
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Post by pakman on Feb 13, 2015 9:27:32 GMT -5
It actually really hit home for me when people my age started being profiled as missing children. When I first started watching AMW, they were profiling Ashley Pond and Miranda Gaddis, 12- and 13-year-old best friends who disappeared a month apart from the same apartment complex. I was 13 at the time, and I remember I got so attached to the case. When their bodies were found, I remember being very, very upset about it (moreso than any other missing child case I've seen profiled on AMW). From that day forward I tried my very best to not get emotionally attached to cases.
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Post by pakman on Feb 12, 2015 22:09:50 GMT -5
Since this is kind of a topic about random discussions, I thought I'd bring this to the table; you know when I started feeling old? When I started seeing AMW profile fugitives that were my age or younger. It actually happened twice in 2004 - I was 15 when Danquon Brown and Kayla LaSala were brought to AMW.
I'm now 26, and I was just watching the episode where Benjamin Pingle was profiled (he was convicted of killing one of his daughters and then jumped bail during his appeal - his grandfather put up his house so Pingle could get out of jail and because he jumped, his grandfather was in danger of losing his house). Pingle was 26 at the time of his profile. Still weirds me out when I see that.
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Post by pakman on Feb 12, 2015 19:54:40 GMT -5
^ You know, I wonder if there's going to be more fugitives caught that way in the coming years. The Baby Boomers are all getting ready to retire, and many will probably try to apply for government benefits. There's a good possibility a lot of fugitives in that age group (50s-60s) could get found that way.
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Post by pakman on Feb 12, 2015 19:52:21 GMT -5
Oh, I agree completely! I'm not saying any of these guys aren't bad people - I'm just saying if I were John Walsh and had those fugitives to pick from, that's the order I would have gone in
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Post by pakman on Feb 12, 2015 17:04:13 GMT -5
#2: Robert Brent Bowman //2nd on my '007 list. Would anyone happen to know what puts Bowman's case above Flores' for most of you? For me personally, it comes down to small, almost nit-picky factors since, if you think about it, both cases are eerily similar. Both crimes went unsolved for years until DNA finally linked the suspect to the case, both crimes featured a female victim who was (according to AMW) sexually assaulted and then murdered. But there are small, small deciding factors that lead me to pick Bowman over Flores. Namely, the fact that Eileen Adams was held hostage and tortured, plus the likelihood that Bowman committed more crimes over the years. It's been implied that Flores didn't commit anymore serious crimes (or at least nobody seems to believe he did) but AMW specifically asked if people knew of any additional crimes Bowman committed while a fugitive. 2007 is a lot like 2005 for me; you could pretty much change my 1 and 2 fugitives and there'd be almost no difference.
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Post by pakman on Feb 12, 2015 14:41:23 GMT -5
I getcha How I arranged the lists is based on what we knew at the time. For example, Earnest Ferguson was acquitted, but I still put him high on my list because the crime he was accused of was a senseless one. That's also why I put the Baton Rouge Serial Killer lower on my list - I don't like putting unknown cases very high and that was definitely the most "unknown" case that's ever been on the list.
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Post by pakman on Feb 12, 2015 13:12:09 GMT -5
As we all know, from 2000-2010, John Walsh would release his list of the 10 Fugitives from that Year still at large that he wanted caught the most. It became an annual tradition, and one that all AMW fans looked forward to. Sometimes we all agreed with John (I don't think one person disagreed with his decision to name Yaser Said his #1 fugitive of 2008) while other choices left us scratching our heads (Manuel Penaloza at #1 was just plain baffling). Many of us created our own Top 10 lists of our own most wanted fugitives.
But I've decided to do something a little different - using only the fugitives on John Walsh's Most Wanted Lists, how would you have organized them? The only requirement to this is that you can't remove or add any other fugitives; you have to use the cases he put on his personal list, but put them in the order you would have.
Here's what I've got (note that I'm only doing 2002-2010 since those are the only lists I've seen).
2002: #10 - Guillermo Del Prado (was #9 on John Walsh's list) #9 - Dimitrios Androutsopoulos (was #8 on John Walsh's list) #8 - Unknown Baton Rouge Serial Killer (was #3 on John Walsh's list) #7 - Andre Neverson (was #10 on John Walsh's list) #6 - Armando Garcia (no change) #5 - Edward Morris (was #7 on John Walsh's list) #4 - Anthony Chang (was #5 on John Walsh's list) #3 - Francisco Martinez (was #4 on John Walsh's list) #2 - Loren Key (no change) #1 - Michael Brashar (no change)
2003: #10 - Arturo Munguia (no change) #9 - Marcus Head (no change) #8 - Lovekesh "Bobby" Kumar (was #2 on John Walsh's list) #7 - Doug Aigen (was #4 on John Walsh's list) #6 - Greisy Valencia (no change) #5 - Christian Rodriguez (no change) #4 - Eduardo "Limpy" Rodriguez (was #3 on John Walsh's list) #3 - Pinkney "Chip" Carter (was #1 on John Walsh's list) #2 and #1 - John Stoneman and Patricia Kelley (were #8 and #7 on John Walsh's list)
2004: #10 - Emigdio Preciado (no change) #9 - Paul Eischeid (no change) #8 - Damar Pink (was #5 on John Walsh's list) #7 - Timothy Marino (was #4 on John Walsh's list) #6 - Greisy Valencia (no change) #5 - William Plemons (was #3 on John Walsh's list) #4 - Mark Everett (was #7 on John Walsh's list) #3 and #2 - Jahbir & Alfonso Fowle (were #2 and #1 on John Walsh's list) #1 - Gary Lasher (was #8 on John Walsh's list)
2005: #10 - Andre Harris (was #5 on John Walsh's list) #9 - Donald Lynch (was #7 on John Walsh's list) #8 - Kenneth Cofer (no change) #7 - George Saravanos (was #6 on John Walsh's list) #6 - Alfredo Lopez-Cruz (was #10 on John Walsh's list) #5 - Jason Brown (was #9 on John Walsh's list) #4 - Fabian Urrea (was #3 on John Walsh's list) #3 - Jean-Marie Jean-Francois (was #4 on John Walsh's list) #2 - Dan Hiers (was #1 on John Walsh's list) #1 - Israel Barretero (was #2 on John Walsh's list)
(NOTE: My #1 pick for this year was tricky, since both Hiers and Barretero were wanted for terrible crimes. In the end I went with Barretero simply because his crime was more random - he got mad at a bar employee for breaking up a fight he had with someone and then shot three people dead because of it.)
2006: #10 - Waqas Rehman (no change) #9 - Andre Neverson (was #2 on John Walsh's list) #8 - Orson Black (was #9 on John Walsh's list) #7 and #6 - Byron Perkins & LeaAnn Howard (no change) #5 - Eric Rosenstrom (was #3 on John Walsh's list) #4 - Rebekah Johnson (was #8 on John Walsh's list) #3 - Richard McNair (was #4 on John Walsh's list) #2 - Earnest Ferguson (was #5 on John Walsh's list) #1 - Edmundo Cerda-Anima (no change)
2007: #10 and #9 - Dominic Lyde & Derrick Benjamin (were #9 and #8 on John Walsh's list) #8 - Nai Yin Xue (was #7 on John Walsh's list) #7, #6 and #5 - Carmela Cadena, Rafael Cadena-Sosa & Patricio Sosa (were #6, #5 and #4 on John Walsh's list) #4 - Manuel Penaloza (was #1 on John Walsh's list) #3 - Paul Jackson (no change) #2 - Alexis Flores (was #10 on John Walsh's list) #1 - Robert Bowman (was #2 on John Walsh's list)
(NOTE: can I just say how bizarre this list was? I personally would not have put the Cadena-Sosas on the list, but that could just be me)
2008: #10 - Timoteo Rios (was #6 on John Walsh's list) #9 - Jeffrey Marshall (no change) #8 - Cinthya Rodriguez (no change) #7 - Sarah Pender (was #5 on John Walsh's list) #6 - Muammer "Mike" Aldailam (was #10 on John Walsh's list) #5 - Unknown Tinley Park Killer (was #4 on John Walsh's list) #4 - Edward Salas (was #3 on John Walsh's list) #3 - Carlos Thompson (was #7 on John Walsh's list) #2 - Darryl Crenshaw (no change) #1 - Yaser Said (no change)
2009: #10 - Glen Holmes Jr. (no change) #9 - Unknown Apple Valley Bank Robber (no change) #8 - Nazira Cross (was #7 on John Walsh's list) #7 - Abraham Mpaka (was #6 on John Walsh's list) #6 - Henry Menjivar (was #8 on John Walsh's list) #5 - Beacher Hackney (was #1 on John Walsh's list) #4 - Emmanuel Vanderhorst (was #3 on John Walsh's list) #3 - Berny Figueroa (was #4 on John Walsh's list) #2 - Jose Luis Saenz (was #5 on John Walsh's list) #1 - Jesus "Chuy" Canales (was #2 on John Walsh's list)
2010: #10 - Richard Sam (no change) #9 - Christopher Meade (was #7 on John Walsh's list) #8 - Paul Winklebleck (no change) #7 and #6 - Julio Ceja & Jose Garibay (were #6 and #5 on John Walsh's list) #5 - Christopher Deininger (was #4 on John Walsh's list) #4 - Ervis Mecollari (was #3 on John Walsh's list) #3 - Robert Lee King (was #2 on John Walsh's list) #2 - Fidel Urbina (was #9 on John Walsh's list) #1 - Jose Corona (no change)
So the lists I altered the least were 2003 and 2008 (the latter is fascinating because I would have left off a couple people John Walsh put on his, like Timoteo Rios and Cinthya Rodriguez) and the ones I changed the most were 2005 and 2007 (the former was just plain weird with adding two 15 Seconds of Shame-exclusives, which I'm convinced replaced someone who'd been caught. My money would be on Cesar Lira and Peter Braunstein myself. The latter just made no sense to me, especially with Penaloza at #1. It really seemed like the only reason he got that placement was because of Heidi's actions to save her puppy. I just rewatched that profile not too long ago and I realized that the two victims were barely mentioned. I don't seem to recall AMW even airing photos of them, though I could be wrong on that.)
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Post by pakman on Feb 12, 2015 12:21:17 GMT -5
I always thought this was one of the most bizarre murder cases AMW ever profiled. As has been stated, it's likely Marianne wasn't the intended target, which is just the first of the bizarre facts of this case. And the post-AMW update in this case is also fascinating, especially since the guy gets killed in an apparent domestic dispute.
Dr. Bond's work was later utilized by AMW when they updated the murder case of Sgt. Chris Reyka in 2011.
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Post by pakman on Feb 11, 2015 17:31:32 GMT -5
Winklebleck is now the fourth member of John Walsh's 10 Most Wanted of 2010 to go down. Meade was first, followed by Sam, then Ceja, and now Winklebleck.
He's also the first member of the list to be found dead since Bobby Kumar.
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Post by pakman on Feb 11, 2015 16:00:45 GMT -5
For the record, this was not profiled on the show itself
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Post by pakman on Feb 11, 2015 10:46:24 GMT -5
This is a guy I wish AMW would have profiled. Seems to me like if they didn't lead to his capture, they would have at least helped make his world a little smaller. Of course, there's a chance he could have been profiled between 1996-1998, but we don't really have a way of knowing that.
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Post by pakman on Feb 9, 2015 23:01:27 GMT -5
Wow, he looks really different! I definitely would not have recognized him if he walked right past me. Looks like he's gained some weight and grown facial hair.
So frustrating though that he apparently was in custody just FOUR YEARS AGO and now he's gone!
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